I think that USAT could adopt the ITU Age Group rules for all competitors, and it would be an improvement over what we currently have.  At Long Course Worlds, I think that the ruling was 23C even for elites, which was a bit too warm for a 3k swim.  The age group rules for ITU are:
 
1500m swim - wetsuits prohibited above 22C (71.6F)
1501m - 3000m swim - wetsuits prohibited above 23C (73.4F)
3001m - 4000m swim - wetsuits prohibited above 24C (75.2F)
 
Adopting these standards would take away the confusion of different standards for pros and age groupers and it would be graduated for distances.
-Brandon Marsh

---

Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:32:35 +0000
From: e-litebeat@yahoogroups.com
To: e-litebeat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [e-litebeat] Digest Number 307

E-lite Beat (USAT Pros)

Messages In This Digest (1 Message)

1a.

Re: WTC Wetsuit Rules From: karen/mike

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1a.

Re: WTC Wetsuit Rules

Posted by: "karen/mike" mkandks@comcast.net   mkandks

Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:06 am (PST)

For the shorter races the ITU rule seems to be best but the problem
lies in the longer distance races when there is a mass start--the age
groupers are allowed to wear wetsuits upt to 78-degrees so there are
many more of them that can keep up with the professionals which
makes it a much more crowded, risky, frustrating swim. And then
those same age groupers are there at the beginning of the bike making
pack-riding more prevalent. Perhaps we could at the very least have
the lower temp in effect whenever the pros have a separate wave
(which I personally wish would be always). There is still the pesky
issue of age groupers comparing their times to the pros when they
operated under different rules, but most of us could live with that.
We should push for separate waves whenever possible as well.

The other question is whether the ITU temp is appropriate for the
longer distances. Swimming 1500 meters during an Olympic distance
race at that temp is quite different from swimming 2.4 miles during
an Ironman (the pace is slower so you don't generate as much body
heat and you tend to lose more heat over the longer course of the
swim). I would think a slight graduated temp might be reasonable (72-
degrees?) but I doubt we will get everyone to agree on what that is.
I agree that 78 degrees is way too warm for wetsuits for professionals.

Karen Smyers

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I agree with Karen, Victor, Dave and Seth. 78F is WAY too warm to
allow wetsuits (not only for elites but also for age groupers in my
opinion). I can see having a slightly higher temp for longer distance
races but any elite should be able to handle 72F for an hour.

Unless there is a swim prime on the line that is open to both amateurs
and pros then who cares if the age groupers get to wear wetsuits when
the pros do not? We race by different rules and under different
conditions (assuming a separate pro start) so the times can never be
truly compared anyhow.

-Laurie

--- In e-litebeat@yahoogroups.com, karen/mike <mkandks@...> wrote:
>
> For the shorter races the ITU rule seems to be best but the problem
> lies in the longer distance races when there is a mass start--the age
> groupers are allowed to wear wetsuits upt to 78-degrees so there are
> many more of them that can keep up with the professionals which
> makes it a much more crowded, risky, frustrating swim. And then
> those same age groupers are there at the beginning of the bike making
> pack-riding more prevalent. Perhaps we could at the very least have
> the lower temp in effect whenever the pros have a separate wave
> (which I personally wish would be always). There is still the pesky
> issue of age groupers comparing their times to the pros when they
> operated under different rules, but most of us could live with that.
> We should push for separate waves whenever possible as well.
>
> The other question is whether the ITU temp is appropriate for the
> longer distances. Swimming 1500 meters during an Olympic distance
> race at that temp is quite different from swimming 2.4 miles during
> an Ironman (the pace is slower so you don't generate as much body
> heat and you tend to lose more heat over the longer course of the
> swim). I would think a slight graduated temp might be reasonable (72-
> degrees?) but I doubt we will get everyone to agree on what that is.
> I agree that 78 degrees is way too warm for wetsuits for professionals.
>
> Karen Smyers
>

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For the shorter races the ITU rule seems to be best but the problem
lies in the longer distance races when there is a mass start--the age
groupers are allowed to wear wetsuits upt to 78-degrees so there are
many more of them that can keep up with the professionals which
makes it a much more crowded, risky, frustrating swim. And then
those same age groupers are there at the beginning of the bike making
pack-riding more prevalent. Perhaps we could at the very least have
the lower temp in effect whenever the pros have a separate wave
(which I personally wish would be always). There is still the pesky
issue of age groupers comparing their times to the pros when they
operated under different rules, but most of us could live with that.
We should push for separate waves whenever possible as well.

The other question is whether the ITU temp is appropriate for the
longer distances. Swimming 1500 meters during an Olympic distance
race at that temp is quite different from swimming 2.4 miles during
an Ironman (the pace is slower so you don't generate as much body
heat and you tend to lose more heat over the longer course of the
swim). I would think a slight graduated temp might be reasonable (72-
degrees?) but I doubt we will get everyone to agree on what that is.
I agree that 78 degrees is way too warm for wetsuits for professionals.

Karen Smyers

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I support the ITU wetsuit rule of 20 degrees C.

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Hello,
The AAC would like your opinion on the following:

Currently, the WTC's rules allow wetsuits up to 78 degrees. Some
athletes feel that this is too high, forcing pros to wear wetsuits to
remain competitive, but risking overheating in the race.
The ITU's rule is 68 degrees.

Do you think the WTC temp should be changed?

Thanks,
Alison & Your Athletes Advisory Council

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I think the 78 degree rule should remain. I'm pretty sure that the main reason why WTC cutoff is higher than the normal USAT rules or the ITU rules is that most of the Ironman races include a mass start and they wanted to avoid creating a situation where a bunch of pros without wetsuits get gobbled up by a huge group of wetsuit-wearing age groupers. Wetsuits are not required, and if an athlete decides that they'd rather skip the wetsuit due to concerns of overheating, that should remain their decision. If they feel that the other, wetsuit wearing athletes still have an advantage on them despite the fact that they will all, theoretically, be overheated throughout the swim, then overheating obviously isn't really that much of a disadvantage from a performance perspective. I suppose they have a valid point that it can be uncomfortable to be too hot, but in most summertime, long-distance triathlon races, that's still likely to be one of the coolest parts of the race.

I don't want to hijack this discussion, but I'm not completely sure how to start a new one. At the pre-race meeting before the (USAT-sactioned, non-WTC) Spirit of Racine Triathlon I did this past weekend, there was a lot of confusion and concern about the stagger rule on the bike. Unfortunately, that seems to have become the norm at every pre-race briefing I've been to in the past 7+ years of pro racing. When I started racing pro in 2000, I found the concept easy to understand and I quickly learned to adapt to the new rule without ever really questioning it. However, the more I race, the more I see some potential problems with the rule, and I am becoming particularly concerned with issue of athletes' safety when the rule is enforced on roads that are open to traffic. The rule basically states that you cannot be direcly behind the rider in front of you, regardless how far ahead of you they are. There are often extended periods of time in each race I do where I can see someone on the road ahead of me, but I am not even close to being in their drafting zone. If they are on the right side of the lane, I need to at least be in the middle of the lane and, to futher ensure I don't get penalized, I am often closer to the yellow line than I would EVER ride when training. When cyclists don't stick to the right side of the lane, it becomes much more difficult for motorists to pass them. The drivers eventually become more and more frustrated until they finally pass me with their gas pedal pressed to the floor and usually not more that a couple feet away from hitting me. Under normal training and racing conditions, there would be no reason for me to be in the middle of the road and blocking traffic like that, but because of USAT's stagger rule, I am required to do it or I risk a penalty which will likely lead to a reduction in the amount of prize money I take home from the race. My question is, if (and when) a pro triathlete does eventually get hit and seriously injured or killed by a motor vehicle because they were riding in the middle of the road in an effort to obey USAT's rules, won't it then be a little too late to say "hmmm... maybe that rule wasn't so necessary afterall"? From what I've seen, the stagger rule doesn't really seem to eliminate drafting either. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've seen people get away with drafting in a race while the USAT officials are apparently busy pulling people over for not staggering behind the ride who was 1/4 mile up the road from them. I'd be interested to hear other pros' opinions on the stagger rule, and if there's truly as much dislike of the rule as there seems to be at every pro meeting, perhaps the AAC could discuss the return of "ride on the right, pass on the left" rules with USAT officials.

Sorry again about hijacking the wetsuit issue, but I hope you'll agree that the added danger of following the stagger rule is at least as significant as the problems associated with overheating in a wetsuit. Thanks!

Paul





--- alisonaac@yahoo.com wrote:

From: "Alison Hankins" <alisonaac@yahoo.com>
To: e-litebeat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [e-litebeat] WTC Wetsuit Rules
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:06:21 -0000

Hello,
The AAC would like your opinion on the following:

Currently, the WTC's rules allow wetsuits up to 78 degrees. Some
athletes feel that this is too high, forcing pros to wear wetsuits to
remain competitive, but risking overheating in the race.
The ITU's rule is 68 degrees.

Do you think the WTC temp should be changed?

Thanks,
Alison & Your Athletes Advisory Council








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